Xbox's new six-part documentary series celebrating the 20 year history of Microsoft's console gaming division has a lot of company secrets and industry insights and one highlight from a Nintendo perspective is a brief segment about motion gaming in Chapter 5.
In the holiday 2006, Nintendo launched its new motion-controlled Wii console and it turned the "world upside down" in the words of former Microsoft/Xbox Game Studios employee Shannon Loftis. It also caught Nintendo's competitors by surprise.
It certainly didn't go unnoticed at Microsoft, either - with the current head of Xbox Phil Spencer reflecting on how company co-founder Bill Gates apparently wasn't too impressed Xbox's leaders hadn't picked up on this next big craze within the video game industry and put "a lot of pressure" on the team to respond.
"I remember Bill putting a lot of pressure on the Xbox leadership team, 'how did we miss motion gaming, what can we do to catch up?'"
Xbox industrial designer Carl Ledbetter adds how Xbox felt it had to compete and advance its game strategy, but didn't want to just roll out a Wii Remote rip-off.
The former president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment America Jack Tretton also shared Sony's perspective of Nintendo's dominance during this period - acknowledging how Nintendo played a huge role in transforming gaming at the time into mainstream entertainment.
"Nintendo came out of left field with a device that wasn't based on technology, it was based on a simple entertainment experience of being able to play a game without being a button masher on a controller. Clearly they expanded the audience and they took gaming to mainstream entertainment."
Fortunately for Xbox, it had already been doing some "technology exploration" - by mapping people using depth sensing, RBG cameras and more - and that's how Kinect was born. And although it didn't go down well with Xbox's core audience, the company believes it was a "game-changer" - with the product going on to sell 10 million units in just the first 60 days.
Xbox would eventually move away from Kinect later on during the Xbox One generation, while Nintendo has kept motion controls alive with the Switch Joy-Con.
Comments 63
Microsoft should keep the Kinect games idea for current XBOX machine.
Kinect games are perfect choice for casual gamers.
Looks like Microsoft hate casual gamers.
Not everyone have interest to play AAA Western games with 4K,120 fps and gruesome violences.
Didn't the Xbox One launch with a Kinect 2. Microsoft didn't move away, they couldn't let go until people were really piss cause most who want an Xbox One just want a console and not with the Kinect 2.
Does the series X even have Kinect support? The PS Move was always just a lame knockoff, but I think Kinect was interesting and distinct technology, it's just they never made any worthwhile games for it.
@Specter_of-the_OLED Yes, it did - but as noted, "later on" in the X1 generation when Phil Spencer took over as Head of Xbox, they immediately dropped the Kinect bundled in with systems, reducing the overall price.
@Anti-Matter Kinect was garbage. Xbox has tons of non-violent games. Stop being so hyperbolic and ignorant.
@EVIL-C
I have some Kinect XBOX 360 games, yet i still haven't played yet since i haven't bought the machine at the moment.
I don't think Kinect games are garbage since i like some Kinect games idea that similar as Wii casual games.
@EVIL-C but does the Xbox have chibi muscular shovelware? All jokes aside, the Xbox is doing great with family friendly games. I have a lot of games on Switch which are also on Xbox gamepass.
Kinect was pretty much what killed the Xbox One last gen (with TV, TV, TV; always online and blocking used game sales also being massive blunders).
To include one with every Xbox One sold MS had to use a GPU half as powerful as the one Sony had in the PS4 to keep costs down. Even then, the Xbox One was $100 more expensive than the PS4.
Dumping Kinect was the smartest decision they could have made.
@Anti-Matter If you have seen Power On: The Story of Xbox that's exactly what caused the downfall of the Xbox One at launch. They focused to much on the casual audience and forgot the hard-core gamers that brought them to the dance. That's all been MS niche with the Xbox consoles hardcore adult gamers.
How obliviously arrogant of the man! 'How did we miss it?' 'Erm, because Nintendo only just came up with it, you arse. You probably wouldn't have thought of it otherwise.'
Honestly, best thing about Nintendo is when they have their 'why hasn't this been done before?' moments (inbetween the 'wth is this?' ones lol.)
Well, according to my games purchase list, my XBOX 360 games are only consist:
3 Dance Dance Revolution games (DDR UNIVERSE 1 - 3), 14 Kinect XBOX 360 games with Dance Evolution by Konami, 3 Normal XBOX 360 Exclusive games for kids.
Only 20 XBOX 360 games by total i will pick. (Currently have 9 XBOX 360 games with 1 DDR UNIVERSE 3 + Eight Kinect XBOX 360 games)
Yeah, Microsoft really went all in "copying" the Wii with Kinect (as mentioned in the article) but also the Xbox avatars were basically a Mii ripoff and in the later half of the Xbox 360‘s life this stuff was basically Microsofts main focus and they stopped making new first party games apart from Kinect tech demos and the obligatory Halo, Gears of War and Forza games. And I guess that’s why in the end, the PS3 overtook the 360 sales-wise (despite its rough start) and this trend continued with the flawed launch of the Xbox One (main focus on multimedia instead of games, bundling Kinect with every Xbox One and having it as a requirement for the Xbox One to work, their initial plans of making the Xbox One an "always online"-system, …). The discontinuation of the Kinect signalizes a turning point in the Xbox One‘s marketing strategy and the systems main focus and I think for this very reason alone it was the right thing for Phil Spencer to do… I only wish they’d have made the Kinect compatible with Xbox Series for backwards compatibility reasons.
Did they not mention Project Newton? Their direct competitor for Wii they eventually canned
@RubyDevilNine
Exactly. There's something sinister about a semi autonomous camera staring into my life 24/7. I used to spin mine around or drape a cloth over it when I wasn't playing. Nowadays TVs are watching people.
Xbox One launched with NO games for Kinect 2.0. Considering it was packed in the box Microsoft did almost nothing with the camera. Kinect Sports Rivals eventually launched but it was a whole new art style leaving behind the personality of the Avatars. But it makes sense as most of the features of the Xbox 360 were abandoned and Xbox One was fairly barebones at launch.
@SwitchVogel No Kinect support at all. While the vast majority of XB1 games are playable on Series X|S, Kinect got fully left behind so if you want to play XB1 Kinect games you need to still have a XB1.
Focusing on the Kinect instead of quality 1st and 3rd party games I'd what made the PS3 outsell the Xbox 360 by the end of the generation. They should've have focused on what they were good at instead of aping Nintendo.
Kinects main problem was the space required to make it work properly you need a sports hall for it to work perfectly some of the games were quite a lot of fun
@Anti-Matter Xbox just added Paw Patrol, Ben 10 and Race with Ryan to Gamepass this week. Just saying!
On another note - I just played through Spongebob Truth or Square on my Series X backwards compatibility and it was a very fun game that made me miss these sort of Gen 6 licensed platformers.
I think you have it in your head that Microsoft is bad and they hate casuals but they really don’t.
Back to the topic of Kinect - Rare made some great Kinect games with Kinect Sports. They actually worked really well. I still have my Kinect - it’s cool it’s just long to set up and clear space for.
And currently Xbox is diametrically opposite to Nintendo's business model. Xbox just wants to feed the FPS and Sports market with a basic controller. Neither company threatens the others market share, and they work together to make their customers happy.
I guess if Microsoft learned anything is It's impossible to out-Nintendo Nintendo.
Let's be honest the kinect flopped hard and was no where near the level or as popular as the wii.
I think they were a little too late.
The mass introduction of motion control was a significant part of gaming history however at the time beyond a peak you could see that it was not an enduring platform beyond that generation.
Where it still exists and will continue to evolve (although slow at present) is VR. I think VR will be the future of most gaming at some point but still a few generations away.
The waggle generation will return.
@Anti-Matter some of us are adults and have no interest in games for children.
Now please excuse me while I go play Animal Crossing New Horizons.
@Anti-Matter Having been a lifetime fan of Nintendo and I will continue to do so, I branched out this year and got a series X.
I have 3 children and have found a substantial amount of content throughout xboxs library that suits them.
Xbox has violent games, Sony does but also Nintendo does as well. I welcome the fact that all cater for varying audiences but would suggest none of them only cater for adult and violent content.
@K1LLEGAL
I already have Paw Patrol Mighty Pups PS4 version and have finished the game as well so i don't need anything from Game Pass since i want all my games in physical release.
And for Racing with Ryan, i will get the Switch version.
Also, i have 8 Kinect XBOX 360 games currently:
Kinect Adventures, Kinect Sports 1, Kinect Sports 2, Kinect Joy Ride, Kinect Disneyland Adventures, Dance Masters (Dance Evolution), Dr. Kawashima Body and Brain Exercises, Deca Sports Freedom.
Well SOMEONE was jealous of Nintendo 😉
Removed - inappropriate
Well the company behind the Wiimote tech did pitch it to Sony and MS first and they declined. So I guess Bill Gates did have a good reason to be pissed off.
And it flopped
@RubyDevilNine
I have almost every Skylanders games on Wii, Wii U, PS3 & PS4. 🙂
Spyro's Adventure (PS3) (Finished)
Swap Force (Wii & PS3) (PS3 version finished)
Trap Team (Wii U) (Pending)
Superchargers (Wii U) (Finished)
Superchargers Racing (Wii) (Pending)
Imaginators (PS4) (Currently playing)
Just need Giants on PS3 then i have collected 7 Skylanders games.
I think Wii U downplaying motion controls to focus on Wii U pad was a major reason for its downfall. Controls with Wii U pad wasn't as fun as with Wii Mote
Microsoft's story is scarily like Sega's. First console did well but had no chance next to the biggest rival (master system v nes and xbox v ps2), then started extremely well but was eventually outsold worldwide (mega drive v snes and 360 v ps3) because they put a lot of focus on an add on rather than focusing entirely on the games in the run up to the next true console (mega cd and 32x v snes just releasing games and not bothering with an add on), and this resulting in a botched launch for the true follow up (saturn and x1) that they did everything to fix for the console after (dreamcast and series x/s).
Fortunately Microsoft are going nowhere. They have the money to survive it. Sadly Sega didn't despite how good the Dreamcast was and with Sony clearly being keen to kill the Dreamcast ASAP.
I'm glad Microsoft have turned it round. I was one of the many people to go from ps2 to 360 to ps4 and then (in a few months time) series x.
Its a shame about Sega but it is scary to see how similar Microsoft's story is to Sega. But the lesson is clear.
Although Kinect and Playstation Move controllers were a hasty reaction to the motion control fad, Sony made the Move controllers compatible with an 'unknown VR device' which hadn't even been designed yet. Despite their limitations I'm impressed by their forward thinking which is unusual for Sony. At this point the originally gimmicky Move controllers have outlasted an entire console, (PS Vita), while Kinect was indeed a flash in a pan.
The kinect kills you as it detects your movements with large amounts of radiation. It even spys on you too! Alex Jones said so!
And thus the worst Sonic game in existence was born: Sonic Free Riders
Motion controls suck on any platform
I never knew a single person with a Kinect, and every one I knew had a 360.
@ParadoxFawkes Except VR. VR sucks without motion controls.
I don't care if our motion controls suck, make something and sell it...
I don't care if our vax is any good, make something and sell it..
Kinect sold 35 millions, and is still the #1 add-on sold for any console ever.
Anyway. "Kinect Adventures" by Rare were damn good, fast, responsive and accurate.
@Anti-Matter The 3 biggest Xbox 1st party games this year are Halo Infinite, Forza Horizon 5 and MS Flight Sim, none have gruesome violence and 2 aren't even combat based. I smell a fanboy here.
@EVIL-C
Ha Ha, What a nice joke;
Anyway, the Kinect was not rubbish, it simply had the bad luck of being developed to take advantage of the "boom" of the motion controls and not be used as it should be, and unfortunately, be abandoned without looking for more potential and only used in basic games.
And it is that if it had great potential, it could have been a great rival for Nintendo's Wii mote and could have changed the industry somewhat, but as I mentioned, it was not like that and it was forgotten.
However, the technology of the Kinect is used today in many devices in an interesting way, something that Microsoft missed ...
@WallyWest
I don't even like those three games you mentioned.
I hate shooter games from Microsoft.
I never like realistic racing games like Forza / Gran Turismo / etc. They are very boring games.
I have zero interest with realistic simulation driving games. Again, i do not like too realistic games.
Did you even read what XBOX 360 games on my list ?
I only play kids games on XBOX 360, only rated Everyone and Everyone 10+ games. Nothing else.
I still haven't got the machine yet but i have collected some XBOX 360 games first.
Here is full list of my XBOX 360 games after got selected very tight and very long deliberation:
Normal XBOX 360 games (6 games)
1. DDR UNIVERSE 1
2. DDR UNIVERSE 2
3. DDR UNIVERSE 3 (owned)
4. Zoo Tycoon
5. Fuzion Frenzy 2
6. ??? (still searching)
Kinect games (14 games)
7. Kinect Adventures (owned)
8. Kinect Sports season 1 (owned)
9. Kinect Sports season 2 (owned)
10. Kinect Joy Ride (owned)
11. Kinect Disneyland Adventures (owned)
12. Deca Sports Freedom (owned)
13. Dance Masters (owned)
14. Dr Kawashima: Body and Brain Exercises (owned)
15. Kinect Disney Rush
16. Kinectimals: Now with Bears
17. Fantastic Pets
18. Minutes to Win It
19. Rabbids: Alive & Kicking
20. ??? (still searching)
I limited until 20 XBOX 360 games since the other XBOX 360 games (3rd party multi console games) can be founded on PS3 version and i picked the PS3 version instead to boost my PS3 games collection.
Fanboy who ?
I have some OG XBOX, XBOX 360 games as well as Nintendo and PlayStation games.
@SakuraHaruka I wasn't joking.
Great potential sure, but terrible execution.
@UltimateOtaku91 Well yes and no. It flop hard because I say the tech was not there yet and only had a handful of noteworthy games but financial it was a success for microsoft.
The one flaw with Xbox's controllers remains that they still don't have gyros. I hate "waggle" motion controls, but FPS aiming is substantially easier on a console and closer to PC mouse+keybo with gyros in the controller, and Xbox not including them is probably why most shooters, including on PS don't bother with them. I never (ever) want to return to the miserable input schemes of the Wii era, it was awful, but the utility of gyros for aiming is quite significant!
@SuperCharr Gates has nothing to do with the company, today, though. He even sold a lot of his stock. He may be the OG founder but he's otherwise just a former executive. Trip Hawkins (founder of EA) actually has more to do with his company than Gates does MS. Trip's still on the board at EA.
@Anti-Matter Ok fair enough you aren't a fanboy so sorry for that but it doesn't change what i said about the 3 games i mentioned, those games aren't violent heavy games even Halo what is no more violent then a MCU film. Its worth noting casual doesn't mean kid friendly, plenty of "casual" gamers play COD for instance or GTA V. Finally MS owns the most "casual" gaming IP out there in Minecraft.
@MetalMan Tetris VR is pretty awesome.
Motion controls are only good in VR IMO.
Edit: anyone figure out what's wrong with anti-matter yet?
@Liam_Doolan thank goodness, else, myself & many, many others wouldn't have bought one.
@Anti-Matter so you want them to keep supporting something that you haven't even bought & supported yourself? Yet, you are mad cuz most gamers didn't want kinect & were upset they were being forced to buy it, & thankfully MS stopped that nonsense? Really?
@GrailUK Bill Gates is the worst type of human. I hope no one takes him seriously. ... coming from an Xbox fan.
@twztid13
I have bought the games first yet still haven't bought the machine at the moment since i still want to build other games library (PS3, PS4, OG XBOX, Wii, Wii U, Gamecube).
These are my XBOX 360 games i have according from my post above.
Normal XBOX 360 games (6 games)
1. DDR UNIVERSE 1
2. DDR UNIVERSE 2
3. DDR UNIVERSE 3 (owned)
4. Zoo Tycoon
5. Fuzion Frenzy 2
6. ??? (still searching)
Kinect games (14 games)
7. Kinect Adventures (owned)
8. Kinect Sports season 1 (owned)
9. Kinect Sports season 2 (owned)
10. Kinect Joy Ride (owned)
11. Kinect Disneyland Adventures (owned)
12. Deca Sports Freedom (owned)
13. Dance Masters (owned)
14. Dr Kawashima: Body and Brain Exercises (owned)
15. Kinect Disney Rush
16. Kinectimals: Now with Bears
17. Fantastic Pets
18. Minutes to Win It
19. Rabbids: Alive & Kicking
20. ??? (still searching)
I have a plan to get OG XBOX machine first in January 2022 then XBOX 360 machine with Kinect sensor after several months later since i still keep building my games library on other machines.
@twztid13 You do not become a billionaire / millionaire by being nice. Fact.
@Delycache You realize those last minute sales are irrelevant?
Culturally, the 360 had a stranglehold on that generation. It won that “war.” Likewise, the failure of the One at launch is what led to the exodus to PS4 and it won that “war” in culture and the irrelevant sales numbers. Not that console wars are anything but a figment of the imaginations in immature gamers worldwide.
Bill gates is a horrible person
@Dracavius Yeah but the PS3 still topped the 360 in terms of sales (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles). It was fairly close but the PS3 still sold more units. I wasn’t talking about who "won the war" (console wars are dumb anyway), I was talking about sales numbers.
@Trajan what should be wrong with him? he has his own taste and opinion, that's all. no one should dictate what games any one likes or plays, that's the freedom of the digital world. be whoever you like and don't give a s*it what others think
@Delycache Which, as I’ve stated, is entirely irrelevant.
@Dracavius No?! My point is that they could‘ve sold more Xbox 360s and thus could have overtaken the PS3 sales wise if they didn’t focus so much on Kinect and a niche audience and instead made more games that appealed the general market. Cultural influence, if they won the generation, etc. has nothing to do with my statement…
@GrailUK being not nice doesn't bother me. Being corrupt does. Elon musk isn't corrupt. Bill gates is. It would take forever to list everything, but just the reason his wife left him is enough by itself, being a pedo island regular, Epstein crony.
@Spider-Kev surely, no one who knows anything about him can argue otherwise...?
@Anti-Matter the hardware is what matters, but not 10 years later. You have to support hardware when it's normal price at retail. If you buy it from second hand, or when it's not sold in retail anymore, that doesn't help at all. They need it to sell well to know people like it, not just comments on websites they will never see. The games usually only help the publisher & developers, so unless all those games are 1st party developed & published, it didn't help Microsoft profit. They need retail sales to decide to continue supporting specific hardware. If you didn't buy it when it counted, i don't think you can be upset they stopped forcing it on the masses, who didn't want it forced on us.
@twztid13
What are you even talking about ? 🤨
I started to build XBOX 360 games very late as I found a chance on year 2020.
That was my lucky day to get the chance.
I feel granted to able play XBOX games even I started very late. Time doesn't matter for me.
Also, I do not like rude people like you to tell me I have to support Microsoft while I only able to start to play XBOX games after several years later due to tough situation.
You are not nice people to talk about.
Ta ta....
@Liam_Doolan But by that point it was too little too late, people already move on to the PS4.
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